Chinese Class - 民办 versus 公办 -

> Learning Chinese > Grammar and Vocabulary
民办 versus 公办
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trevelyan -

I'm always getting 民办 and 公办 mixed-up, as in 民办校 and 公办校. Anyone know the
difference?



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roddy -

公办 would be government run. 民办 would be non-governmental, and my inclination is to say it
would be funding by local people or an organization for public benefit - ie the 民办教师, as
opposed to for profit (which would be 私立). I'm not sure how clear-cut a line that is though.










studentyoung -



Quote:

I'm always getting 民办 and 公办 mixed-up, as in 民办校 and 公办校. Anyone know the
difference?



Quote:

公办学校的定义
定义1：
目前划分的标准主要有二:一是按照学校经费的主要来源,将国有资产（包括��
�政拨款和全民所有制企业事业单位的资金）所办的学校称为公办学校,其它��
�济形式举办的学校称为民办学校


源自: 关于制定我国《民办教育法》若干问题的思考 《江西教育科研》
2000年 王洪明

http://define.cnki.net/define_result...ad%a6%e6%a0%a1

Thanks!










trevelyan -

Thanks.












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Learn mandarin - ZDT: help installing version 0.6.1 for a Linux newbie -

> Learning Chinese > Chinese Computing and Technology > ZDT Flashcards Forum
ZDT: help installing version 0.6.1 for a Linux newbie
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atmartin50 -

大家好！

I just recently started using Ubuntu Linux after many years as a Windows user. I'm really enjoying
Linux so far, but installing 3rd party software is still somewhat of a mystery to me, as I haven't
had the time that I'd like to research the matter.

I love ZDT, but the instructions for installation seem a bit difficult to me. I've successfully
downloaded the file to my home folder. It seems that I have the dependencies fulfilled, though I
don't have Mozilla to my knowledge. When I tried to extract the file using a terminal window, I
received this message as seen in the attachment.

Could anyone help me install ZDT by going through the process in a step-by-step manner? I'm very
eager to study Chinese on my PC again, and to date I have no software installed for this on the
Ubuntu side of my machine (and I don't want to run XP if I can avoid it!).

Thanks so much in advance!



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bogleg -

Hey,

Did you make sure that the archive is actually in the directory that you're in? Do a 'ls' command
to make sure. Once it's unpacked, you can go to the created 'zdt' directory and type ./zdt to run.

Let me know if you still have problems. I run Ubuntu myself as well.

Chris










atmartin50 -

Hi Chris,

Thanks a lot for your help (and sorry I'm only months late in thanking you!).

I got ZDT installed and working. However, if you don't mind, I have several questions for you:

1. Can I create an application launcher in order to avoid using the terminal? If so, how? And is
there an icon that I can use (preferably the one in the ZDT splash screen)? I looked through the
files but was unable to find it.

2. When I was using ZDT while running XP, I created backup files for my flashcards. Can those be
used in Ubuntu? If so, how?

3. Please see my attached screen shot. What do you think could be causing the blurry characters
you see? Have you ever encountered this before?

Thanks a lot for your help!

Regards,
Aaron










bogleg -

Hi Aaron,

1) So here's how I create a launcher on my system (Ubuntu + Gnome). On the desktop, I right-click
and choose 'Create launcher'. I type in a name and I fill in the directory to the zdt executable
in the command field. Let me get back to you on the icon, there currently isn't one yet, but maybe
I can steal the one from the Mac side.

2) You can definitely use the backup file between systems. It's just a text file. Just copy the
backup file over to your Ubuntu system and use the Restore Data function.

3) I did notice the blurry characters on my system too. I think it's just the font. You can play
around with the fonts in the Preferences (Window > Preferences > Font).

Hope that helps

Chris










bogleg -

Hey Aaron,

Try to use the attached png as your icon.

Chris










atmartin50 -

Thanks a lot for your prompt replies, Chris! Much appreciated!

Everything is working fine now. I did get an error message when trying to restore my backup files,
but I'll try again and let you know if I continue to have problems. Thanks again for all your
help----I'm looking forward to studying again!

All the best,
Aaron










atmartin50 -

Hi Chris,

I ran into 2 problems just now:

1. Restoring the backup file from my XP days resulted in the error message you see in the attached
screen shot.

2. After moving a few files around (which I probably shouldn't have done; being a neat freak, I
like seeing only directories in my home folder), I get the error message seen in the other screen
shot.

Could you help me to resolve these? Thanks very much in advance!

Aaron










bogleg -

Hi Aaron,

1) Can you send me your log files? There are two files, [ZDT Install]/zdt.log and [ZDT
Install]/workspace/.log. Can you also send me your backup file as well? Did this error happen
before problem #2? You'll need to fix #2 first and then check if it solves this problem.

2) So first, you need to locate your user.script and user.properties files. This is where all your
user data resides. Then start ZDT, and go to Window > Preferences > Database. Click 'Change
database' and select the location where those two files are located. Then restart the program.

Hope that helps

Chris










atmartin50 -

Hi Chris,

Did you receive those log files I sent to you?

Thanks again for your help and advice! This is exactly what drew me to the Linux/Open Source
community to begin with... I hope I get proficient enough in Ubuntu to help out some folks in the
future just as you have helped me.

Regards,
Aaron










bogleg -

Hi Aaron,

I don't think I received your email. Could you try resending it? Were you at least able to solve
the second error?

Chris












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Learning Mandarin - Can anyone translate what this means... -

> Learning Chinese > Reading and Writing
Can anyone translate what this means...
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themissingNiN -

I wore this T-shirt the other day and our teacher was curious on what it means and gave me a
marked assignment on what it means. I am curious myself too ..Please do help me out.





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againstwind -

Woo~~~ I bet you were given a formidable assignment.

It's buddhist sutra '般若波罗蜜多心经' (Sanskrit: Prajna Paramita Hrdaya Sutra, English:
the Heart Sutra??), short as '心经'.

I found two links http://www.buddhanet.net/heart.htm
and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heart_Sutra

Hope them helpful. But I have no idea about it.

Is there any Buddhist on our forum?










againstwind -

And this is what printed on yout T-shirt:

照见五蕴皆空，度一切苦厄。舍利子！色不异空，空不异色。色即是空，空�
��是色。受想行识，亦复如是。舍利子！是诸法空相，不生不灭，不垢不净��
�不增不减。是故，空中无色，无受、想、行、识；无眼、耳、鼻、舌、身、
意；无色、声、香、味、触、法；无眼界，乃至无意识界；无无明，亦无无�
��尽，乃至无老死，亦无老死尽；无苦、集、灭、道，无智亦无得，以无所��
�故，菩提萨埵；依般若波罗密多故，心无罣碍；无罣碍故，无有恐怖，远离
颠倒梦想，究竟涅槃。三世诸佛，依般若波罗密多故，得阿耨多罗三藐三菩�
��。故知，般若波罗密多是大神咒，是大明咒，是无上咒，是无等等咒，能��
�一切苦，真实不虚。故说般若波罗密多咒










themissingNiN -

so this is a sample of sutra from a budhist script written in chinese right...










raincoat -

Waa.. that seems so difficult? Are you in E class or something?










kevincn -

Even me, a chinese Phd. student, don't know what it means accurately.

I've just tried to learn.
I can just try to say about the first two sentences.
"空" is "incorporeity"; "色" is 'entity' that you can see.
“空不异色，色不异空”
The incorporeity isn't different with the entity. The entity isn't different with the incorporetiy.
It means there is no entity that could don't change forever.
But people only can regard what you see as the entity ,and presume it is immutable, existent and
real.
And the theory is about your heart and your thinking.

http://www.fosss.org/basic/ks.htm










robertolll -

Hi,
I just found this forum and it looks like a treasure. This is my second post. the reason for which
i found the forum in the first place, was to ask for a translation too, but from Spanish/English
to Mandarin. I hope I'm not doing something wrong by posting this in your thread, kevincn.

so i need help with this (it is for a poster (graphic design)):

"Ideas para reConocernos."
"Ideas to reCognize ourSelves."

if anyone can give me some help i will greatly appreciate it.

®










violetwu -

GOD~ Not only philosophy，but also Ancient Chinese Language
IT’S REALY HARD TO translate WORD BY WORD,
let me try

般若波罗密多咒(name of a Buddhist scripture)
照见五蕴皆空，度一切苦厄。
Desire is the root cause of our suffering, there will be no pain,if you give it away .
舍利子kinda like "amen"
色不异空，空不异色。色即是空，空即是色。when you do that, temptations meaning
nothing to you,
受想行识，亦复如是。and every thing will be changed,including your mind and behavior.
舍利子！
是诸法空相，不生不灭，不垢不净，不增不减。
是故，空中无色，无受、想、行、识；无眼、耳、鼻、舌、身、意；无色、�
��、香、味、触、法；无眼界，乃至无意识界；
无无明，亦无无明尽，乃至无老死，亦无老死尽；
无苦、集、灭、道，无智亦无得，以无所得故，菩提萨埵；
依般若波罗密多故，心无罣碍；无罣碍故，无有恐怖，远离颠倒梦想，究竟�
��槃。
Whitout Desire, everything will be the same to you , birth and death,smudge and neatness, increase
and decrease,light and dark…
Whitout Desire, what you see is nothing,what you hear is nothing,what you tast is nothing,what you
feel is nothing…everything is nothing.
Whitout Desire,you will Never fear,and ascending to a new life.
三世诸佛，依般若波罗密多故，得阿耨多罗三藐三菩提。GOD’S NAME
故知，般若波罗密多是大神咒，是大明咒，是无上咒，是无等等咒，
般若波罗密多咒is valuableness.
能除一切苦，真实不虚。故说般若波罗密多咒.
It will take your suffering away,and that’s what the般若波罗密多咒 mean.










trien27 -

robert otolll, why are you asking for a Spanish translation on a Chinese site?!

空 = empty or something that doesn't exist ; 色 = color or something that exists as compared to
空.










talklion -

even i am a chinese university student,i do not know the meaning,
i think there are just a few people know the meaning in china,many just print it on T-shirt but
they do not the meaning












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Learn mandarin - Learning only how to speak Chinese (vs write or read it) - Page 2 -

> Studying, Working and Living in China > Universities and Schools > Studying
Chinese in Beijing
Learning only how to speak Chinese (vs write or read it)
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Crivens200 -

I hate to dis a school and contradict a previous poster, but Bridge school is not for serious
chinese learners - it's for ex-pat wives with nothing better to do with their time. I made the
mistake of when first arriving in Beijing of believing their ads in CityWeekend and That's BJ and
signed up for a month . . . . . left after 2 weeks when I realised that no-one was actually there
to learn chinese and joined a proper school.

As for the original poster, I had that same attitude when I started - that I was only going to
learn to speak and would ignore the characters, but then after a while realised that knowing the
characters was a vital part in the learning process and helped the spoken chinese.



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raincoat -

Just a little suggestion for arkilok, maybe you would want to learn the character as well, you'll
be surprised of how much wonderful beautiful things you may discover in this language. Give it a
try ;)










-葛亚辉- -

yeah....learning characters seems hard at first but gets easier and easier the more you know, and
it DEFINITELY helps you remember words and definitions...i would highly recommend you just learn
to write, its a little more of a time committment but 1) you'll have WAY more and better schools
to choose from and 2) a small increase in time commitment yeilds a large number of advatanges...

just my $0.02.

(if someone knows a good 成语 for "just my two cents" btw, PM it to me....)










simonlaing -

Hi all,

I know I am joining a chorus of voices. But as one who wasted 2 years of Tutoring learning just
pinyin and basic reading, If you really are serious about learning Chinese you should learn to
read and write characters at the same time as you learn Pinyin and speaking.
I found in the 3 year of study when I started studying full time and had to learn to write the
characters. I had to re-learn 80% of the words that I knew in Pinyin form.

I would only recommend your strategy if you plan on solely being a visiting business man who
doesn't spend more than a few weeks in China a year. If you are staying long term I think
investing in learning to read and write is worth it.
I espicially endorse the learning radiacals of characters before learning the characters method.
(Learning characters then becomes like learning to spell in English) A nu zi 女pang with an er
zi子 pang makes hao 好.

Also no Chinese person writes in purely pinyin.
The other poster's comment on Computer aiding the writing process is true. But I think to learn
the characters long term you should also be able to write them on paper. (I found I forgot how to
accurately write the characters using this method though I'd often get the outline some what
right.)

Good luck,
Simon Laing












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Learning Chinese - Age limit on teachers? -

> Studying, Working and Living in China > Living in China > Teaching English in
China
Age limit on teachers?
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griz326 -

I celebrate my birthday in a few days and will be 56. I've been planning to teach in China
starting next year...57. ...but in an exchange with an Australian teaching in Guangzhou, he
mentioned the age limit is catching up to him... I ping'd him on this, but no response yet. He
could be full of beans for all I know...



Does China impose age limits on the English teachers it hires?

Or is that something a school might do?

What are the underlying reasons for the age limit, if it exists?


TIA,
Steve



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wushijiao -

Some schools might not hire teachers that are in their 60's, or in bad health, but I think the
vast majority of schools would hire teachers that are your age, 57.










kdavid -

You'll be hirable by many schools. Some private children schools, however, may be a little weary
as they consider "old age" = less energy and enthusiasm (which isn't always necessarily true).
Most universities don't have much of a preference.










roddy -

It'll also depend on what experience the school has had in the past. If they've just fired three
twenty-something teachers for turning up drunk and cavorting with the female students, they'll
probably jump at the chance to hire someone who might be more calm and stable. But if they've just
seen the back of someone older who had health problems, moaned a lot, etc, they might prefer
someone younger and 'flexible'. All a bit daft, but schools in China do tend to work like this.

Isn't there some State Foreign Experts Bureau-fixed age limit though? It's probably completely
ignored, but might be handy to know.

Roddy
PS. Obviously I'm not saying that you will have health problems and moan. And you are welcome to
turn up drunk










imron -

I think the biggest concern for the school will be health issues. If you can show that you're in
good health I can't imagine there will be a problem unless the school has had problems with
similar aged teachers in the past.

The school I used to teach at, one semester hired a teacher who was 83 years old.










simonlaing -

I agree with Imron, I don't think there are hard and fast rules though private for profit english
firms are more picky.

I had two retired New Zealand teachers at the Nanjing Audit school. They were in their mid 60s to
early 70s and it was during the time of SARS. They got freaked out and only with the school
bending over backwards, informing them of daily reported and confirmed cases of SARS did they stay.

They were in the suburban campus and enjoyed the teaching.
They taught for 4 years I think but went home after the SARS year. I didn't blame them, but it was
good they stuck it out until the summer.

I have several 45+ -55+ friend who are teaching. Usually the universities are better places to
find work, though the pay is less it is very stable and the class load is usually light.
Also Universities have you pay you more if you have a masters or PH.D degree.

Chinese culture seems to respect age.
Have fun,
Simon










griz326 -

I appreciate the reassurance that my age will not prevent me from teaching.

Thank you.










roddy -



Quote:


Originally Posted by simon

I agree with Imron, I don't think there are hard and fast rules though private for profit english
firms are more picky.


It's interesting you'd say that. My impression has always been that the more for-profit schools
will take anyone capable of turning up with trousers on, while the state sector is a lot pickier.










Hero Doug -

This is first hand experience.

I work with someone who's 73. He's a full-time teacher at University. I don't know what kind of
Visa he's on, but I doubt he's been on a tourist Visa for 6 years now.










simonlaing -

Hi Roddy,

while the state sector is a lot pickier.

I just mean that the private centers often like people who look the part of a native english
teacher, I.e. White caucasian, not too old, and slight preference for good looking and (though
there are only a few of em) Females.


Again , I have not really seen any evidence of teachers being turned away on the grounds of age.
have fun,
Simon












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Chinese Studies - I would like some non-Mandarin Chinese slang translations-please help -

> Learning Chinese > Non-Mandarin Chinese
I would like some non-Mandarin Chinese slang translations-please help
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Mavericker -

Hello. I'm interested in and am doing research on Cantonese, Shanghainese, Hokkien and Hakka
youth, street and college slang.

What are Cantonese, Shanghainese, Hokkien and Hakka slangs for:

tough guy
tough girl
tough woman
female prone to fighting?

Please list as many slang translations as possible. Thank you.



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Mavericker -

Is "titicaca" a Chinese term?










Mavericker -

I was told that "ying han", or "ying han zi" are Cantonese slangs for "tough guy". Is this correct?










Mavericker -

Does anyone here know any other Cantonese slangs for "tough guy" besides 'da jai,' 'Tai Lou' and
'Tai Koh' nad 'lan jie'? Please let me know.

I appreciate everyone's help with my Mandarin slang topic-this thead is a continuaition of
that-asking for language help in other Chinese dialects, for a research project I'm working on.
Can you all please help me out. I'd apprecaite your help.










Mavericker -

The reason I am doing this topic, is because I'm interested in other dialects on Chinese. I'm
writing a comic book, and I'm using these terms to name my characters with.

Can anyone here who speaks Cantonese and other Chinese dialects please help me out?










Mavericker -

I went elsewhere asking for Taiwanese Hokkien transaltions, and I git the following:

person prone to fighting
相扑雞
sio1-phah4-ke1 or sio1-phah4-kue1 (lit. fighting cock)

girl prone to fighting
赤諸某
tshiah4-tsa1-boo2

tomboy
諸夫生
tsa1-poo1-senn1 or tsa1-poo1-sinn1

tough (adj.)
儼硬
giam2-nge7 or giam2-ngi7

Is there a noun I can use with giam2-nge7 or giam2-ngi7 to make these terms nouns?










grimacekid -

"female prone to fighting" well, is that 男人婆 in Cantonese? I am just answering this in a
jokey way, please do not take it seriously,
I think for a while for the other three but really have no idea what they should be in
Cantonese.... mmm.......










Mavericker -

Hello grimacekid, and everyone else. I'd like to add to this topic, What are Cantonese,
Shanghainese, Hokkien and Hakka slangs for:

tomboy?
punk?
delinquent male?
delinquent female?

I'd still like translations for the other expressions I posted also.

Here are some Shanghainese terms I know:

bad girls la se1
bad boy liu3 maang1
elder brother gu1 gu / ah gu1
younger brother di di1 / ah di1
elder sister ja ja1 / ah ja1
younger sister me me1 / ah me1
comrade dong3 zi1

Can any of these terms be used as slang?










delloy -

bad girls la se1 -----------la sai would be more accurate
bad boy liu3 maang1 -------liu 2 mang 1
elder brother gu1 gu / ah gu1 -
younger brother di di1 / ah di1
elder sister ja ja1 / ah ja1
younger sister me me1 / ah me1
comrade dong3 zi1

and in shanghai dialect , tones seem not to work very work .actually no tones I think in Shanghai
dialect










Mavericker -

Reply to delloy:

Hello. Thank you for responding and for your answers.

What are Shanghainese slangs for:

tough guy
tough female
tomboy?

Please list a smany as possible. Thank you.












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Chinese School - The Real Folk Blues (Japanese) -

> Extras > Other cultures and language
The Real Folk Blues (Japanese)
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nipponman -

Couldn't resist!

Watch



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Chinese Class - Change Chinese CD to electronics file - Page 2 -

> Learning Chinese > Chinese Computing and Technology
Change Chinese CD to electronics file
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Page 2 of 3 < 1 2 3 >






roddy -

You'll probably find you have 10 6MB mp3 files or something though, not one 60MB one, so you can
email them separately. Plus you could use a different email account anyway.


Quote:

As a company my priority would be to keep the customer happy.

She's doing what the customer requested. That'd make me happy. I'd ignore everything you're saying
as you're just making things more complicated.



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elina -



Quote:

I think Airmail is cheap and reasonably OK. And I don't think the customer has cost on his side,
just declare it as "sample of no commercial value" with a $3.00 value or so.

I think it’s a good idea. And thanks for the tip of using some free file storage sites.

Thanks again, Roddy.

I’m very grateful for all of your patience to a computer idiot like me.










flameproof -

hehe, ripping CDs is quite a task for a PC hostile person. Even a subject I am not expert in....
(I did it once, but had clipping sounds in the MP3 tracks)

Actually one question, is the CD only a Audio CD? (means used in a music CD player vs. a PC). If
it's a CD-rom it's even more complicated (ISO ripping and ISO burning)

I think just sending it is really the easiest thing. And then try other stuff while it's on its
way.

elina
How about some comments on graded beginners reading material in my request here:
http://www. /showthread.php?p=101164










gato -

See this if you still want to use Windows Media Player
http://www.mhkbbs.com/dis.asp?bkid=1943&pagesu=1
CD转MP3、音乐刻录CD，用windows播放器media player就可完成










elina -



Quote:

ripping CDs is quite a task for a PC hostile person.

I agree, I think we may need to find a REAL person on hand to help this out, instead of you online
FAKE guys

Flameproof, the CD is not a CD-ROM, only an Audio CD. And forgive my late comments on your thread,
maybe tomorrow, because I’m hungry now, and need to have dinner. And then, take care of my
little son to go to bed.

I think we will at first learn the software mentioned by Gato, because it’s in Chinese!
Appreciated, Gato.










elina -

Since there’re some problems with our computers, which don’t recognize the CD, we did the
conversion in a shop along the street with RMB 8 yuan. And then, we tried to send the 7
electronics files to our customers through our email boxes @yahoo.com.cn and @yeah.net, we’re
told the attachment is too large. The total size of the 7 electronics files are 92MB, several of
them are 20MB or so. And then, we tried the site of www.megaupload.com, it’s only for pictures
upload, not for Audio files like MP3.

We have searched in the internet for some free file upload sites, only found these sites limit
each file under 10MB. Does someone know if there’s such a free site, which can let people upload
and download Audio files, especially in English language, so that it will be convenient for our
Mexican customers to use.

Thanks.










gato -

Elina, Xdrive might work. It allows you to upload files and share them with others. You have to
create a free AOL screen name first before you can use it.
http://www.xdrive.com/faq.jsp










roddy -

What about Gmail? Allows you unlimited attachments, no? Or do I have that wrong.










flameproof -



Quote:

And then, we tried the site of www.megaupload.com, it’s only for pictures upload,

No, you can upload whatever you like. I just upload a MP3 - no problem!

Try again!

1. click "browse" and chose the file you want to upload
2. under "Please enter a meaningful file description" input i.e. "chinese1"
3. click send










elina -

Feedback:

http://www.xdrive.com/faq.jsp works, but with slower speed than www.megaupload.com.

Gmail said the maximum is 10mb.

Flameproof, we used the Chinese version of www.megaupload.com just now, don’t know why it showed
something like “you should upload files in JPG, GIF format” in Chinese. And according to your
post, I used the English version of www.megaupload.com, it works! Also with very fast speed! I
just finished uploading one of the 7 electronics files, and going to have a rest.

You guys are so helpful! Thanks a lot! No others, just invite you to listen to the songs that I
listened to just now during the boring upload working time, but don’t know if you enjoy them:
http://www1.haoting.com/play/haoting....x=33&B1.y=10#

Have a happy weekend.












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Chinese language - TESOL Teaching if Mandarin fluency is important -

> Learning Chinese > Speaking and Listening
TESOL Teaching if Mandarin fluency is important
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griz326 -

I intend to retire and teach English for a few years. Attaining a good level of Mandarin fluency
is an important personal objective. Is there any hope of learning good Mandarin in the NW or SW of
China or must I stick to the Beijing area?

I presume instruction in the written language is not affected by location.



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Xiao Kui -

I think you will learn Mandarin much faster in a northeastern city (I'm not sure which are your
best bets as far as Mandarin - maybe Dalian, Beijing, Qingdao, and Harbin, I'm sure there are
others, it's been discussed many times in these forums where to get the best CHinese), where it is
spoken in daily language by the locals, but it will still require discipline on your part not to
lean on English and not to let people use you to practice their English.

I've lived 5 years in SW China, and I'm convinced that I would have learned Mandarin better and
faster if I'd been in Beijing or Dalian for this time. Because you very rarely hear Mandarin
spoken on the street in Kunming or Chengdu, and you rarely overhear or get the chance to
"eavesdrop" on a Mandarin conversation. The only Mandarin environment you have is in your Chinese
class. Living in Kunming, I rely on Chinese TV for my Mandarin - otherwise I won't improve.

As many will testify, simultaneously teaching English and learning Chinese is a difficult balance
to maintain, why make it harder on yourself by living in an non Mandarin speaking environment? I'm
still hoping to move to the Northeast one day so I can hear Mandarin spoken in daily life - I
think that would be so rewarding to me after having studied the language for 9 years.










anonymoose -

I think to a certain extent Xiao Kui is right, but most people (except the elderly) will be able
to speak pretty decent mandarin wherever you go. So you should not have a problem if you are
talking directly to them. Of course, when they are speaking to each other, they are likely to be
using local dialect which will make eavesdropping difficult, but then, even Dalian has a local
dialect, or at least local accent, which is often difficult to understand.

I think what is much more important is your attitude to learning Chinese. I'd say your success at
learning will depend 90% on your attitude, and only 10% on your environment (assuming it is
somewhere in China).

By the way, as for characters, you are right - it is the same everywhere on the mainland. However,
Hong Kong and Taiwan use traditional characters, which are seldom used on the mainland (except in
places like shop-signs).










roddy -



Quote:


Originally Posted by anonymoose

I think what is much more important is your attitude to learning Chinese. I'd say your success at
learning will depend 90% on your attitude, and only 10% on your environment (assuming it is
somewhere in China).


That's exactly what I was going to say. It's also worth bearing in mind that where you live is
going to affect how much you enjoy your stay and therefore how motivated you are to study. If you
have a deep and abiding hatred for cold weather, then a winter in Harbin will see you huddled up
in your quilt feeling sorry for yourself, which is no good for your Chinese regardless of how good
the local Mandarin is. Go somewhere you think you will enjoy and create your own opportunities.












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Learn Mandarin online - Battle between Natural Science and Social Science -

> Chinese Culture > Society
Battle between Natural Science and Social Science
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Outofin -

In ancient China, officials were categorized into 2 groups: Wen (civilian) and Wu (military). Now,
middle school students need to choose their major between Wen (social science) and Li (natural
science).

Wen includes art, literature, history, politics and etc. Li includes mathematics, physics,
chemistry and others. Put in an over-simplified way and perhaps a wrong way, Wen stresses on
memorizing, while Li focuses on reasoning. My middle school chemistry teacher once said chemistry
was between Wen and Li, because the class (at least at our level) required lot of memorizing than
mathematic and physics.

The rising influence of natural science could be the most significant change between ancient and
modern China. Science was dismissed by intellects as a skill of low class workers. But now most of
the nation’s political leaders were trained as scientists or engineers during their college time.

In debates on the net, I observe an obvious discrimination toward Wen students. Wen is considers
something that can’t be scientifically measured. By saying “he must be a Wen student”,
it’s essentially to say “he’s lack of ability of reasoning” or “he’s not worth arguing
with”.

I know it’s wrong. But does it make sense? What does the trend mean? How do you think about it?



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gato -



Quote:

Put in an over-simplified way and perhaps a wrong way, Wen stresses on memorizing, while Li
focuses on reasoning.

I think that's because Wen (literature) is taught by memorization in China. Historically, those
who wanted to pass the Imperial Exams had to memorize the Confucian classics, among other things,
if they wanted any chance of passing. There is no inherent reason for literature (or the
humanities) to be taught this way, but since the Imperial Exam is designed to choose smart and
literate people who would toe the government line, the ability to memorize was given a greater
importance than originality. Various reformers have tried to do away with this reliance on
memorization in the educational system, but they've only been able to introduce some minor
reforms. The core of humanities teaching in China is still memorization-based.


Quote:

Wen is considers something that can’t be scientifically measured. By saying “he must be a Wen
student”, it’s essentially to say “he’s lack of ability of reasoning” or “he’s not
worth arguing with.”

In the US, at least, one would say "s/he must be a liberal arts major." But since most college
students in the US are liberal arts majors, that doesn't sting very much.










studentyoung -



Quote:

In debates on the net, I observe an obvious discrimination toward Wen students. Wen is considers
something that can’t be scientifically measured. By saying “he must be a Wen student”,
it’s essentially to say “he’s lack of ability of reasoning” or “he’s not worth arguing
with”.

I know it’s wrong. But does it make sense? What does the trend mean? How do you think about it?

I’m glad that you know the trend of discrimination toward Wen students (arts students). What
does it mean that arts courses can’t be scientifically measured? Are the scientific standards
are the only standards that we should depend on while making a decision? If so, can anybody tell
me what makes a great artist like Vincent van Gogh文森特•凡•高 or a great musician
like路德维希•凡•贝多芬Ludwig Van Beethoven, by using some scientific standard? Of
course, there are some other logics or standards that can help us while making decision. And can
anybody tell me whether economy belongs to arts or science? If it belongs to science, why does it
so hard to be predicted extremely accurately like doing mathematic equations? I can tell your for
sure that economy has both artistic and scientific natures, but I can’t tell you that which part
is more than another.

What’s more, arts and science don’t conflict with each other.. Instead, they are working with
each other to help us solute all kinds of complicated problems in our society. I would like to
give you a simple example. In China, there was a village once suffered from flood almost each
year, but the local people had not idea why this happened? Later, some historian found the key
from local historical records (地方志书). In fact there were some ditches dug in the village
many, many years ago that connected with one of the main branches of Yangtze River (长江) to
guarantee local irrigation. However, it also brought the flood to the village during rainy season.
Understanding where the problem lay, the local people just stopped up these ditches and dug some
wells for irrigation. Of course, no terrible flood has happened in rainy season anymore.

Those who think artistic students are lack of the ability of reasoning or not worth arguing with
are those who view the world in an over-simplified way. And I would like to point out that there
so many problems in our society in China today are caused by lacking of the knowledge or logic in
artistic arts. One of the outstanding social problems in China is its current deficient law system.

Ala, can anyone tell me whether law is an artistic course or not, and whether lawyers are lack of
the ability of reasoning or not worth arguing with?

Thanks!










Outofin -

gato, Wen is a much broader concept than art and literature. It also covers social science,
including history and politics. Studentyoung asked about whether economics and law belong to Wen
or Li. That’s a good point for us to see that the category of Wen and Li doesn't work very well.
I believe law is considered Wen, even though lawyers are definitely the ones who are good at
reasoning and arguing. Economics is a mix, because it takes a scientific approach and requires a
lot of mathematics, but the works of economists can’t be judged by a matter of right or wrong.
Isn’t it one reason why economists don’t have sound reputations as natural scientists?

Let’s compare the exams of these majors. The answer to science exam is a cold fact of right or
wrong, and you pursue it. As for art, forgive my ignorance if I’m wrong, I think it’s only a
matter of I subjectively like your work or not. While for history or law, whether you can answer a
question largely depends on your knowing or not knowing. Unfortunately, the majors in China
don’t often require you to analyze the facts that you know.

These people are trained differently and they don’t get along.

I agree with studentyoung on that every expertise is precious and desperately needed by the
country. Problems I see here are, first, over-confident engineers could mess up; second, Wen
education requires big reforms.

As gato mentioned, most college students in the US are liberal arts majors. Well, that’s even
bigger problem compared to China’s. America will lose its edge.










gato -



Quote:

As gato mentioned, most college students in the US are liberal arts majors. Well, that’s even
bigger problem compared to China’s. America will lose its edge.

Having done both liberal arts and engineering, I know both sides pretty well. They each have their
pluses and minuses. I wouldn't say the U.S. will lose its edge because most Americans are not
trained to be engineers or scientists. The need for engineers and scientists is very small in the
overall market. Take a Google, for example. A well-managed company employing just ten, twenty
thousand engineers is capable of providing the web infrastructure for the entire globe, if it is
allowed to. Only a very small minority is needed to provide the technical services needed by the
broader public.

Out of curiosity, I did a comparison of questions on China's college entrance exam for history and
the US advanced placement history exam. You can see some of the questions below.

The format of the Chinese exam is now very similar to that of the US exam. Even the point
distributions are similar, with the essay sections accounting for 50% of the score on both tests.
But as you'll see, the Chinese exam questions still have a heavy ideological, party-line
component. On the US exams, you are expected to be more objective.

In general, I think there's some memorization required for a liberal arts subject like history
(just as you have to memorize some formulas or algorithms for the sciences or engineering). But
that's only a base-line knowledge. Just knowing the facts will only give you a passing score, at
least in the U.S. To get top marks, you have to be able to analyze the facts and write coherently
and convincingly about them. Those skills are just as valuable as being able to solve physics
problems. In the ideal world, everyone would be trained in both the sciences and the liberal arts,
but people being people, we have our natural strengths and weakness and often wish to do as little
work as we can get away with to boot. So we have to prioritize our needs and figure out what's the
most important.

http://www.pyms.net.cn/xuke/lishi/ls...01cjjwgkt.html
2001 China College Entrance Exam
三．问答题：本大题共3小题，第34题15分，第35题13分，第36题13分，共计41分�
��

34．东晋南朝、隋唐、明清时期选官制度发生了什么变化？分析导致这种变��
�的原因及历史影响。（15分）
[What changes occurred in the government office selection system during the East Jin South,
Suitang, and Ming dynasties? Analyze the causes of these changes and their historical
consequences.]

35．试述中国共产党为建立抗日民族统一战线进行的努力。（13分）
[Describe the efforts carried out by the Chinese Community Party in defeating the Japanese and
unifying the country.]

http://www.collegeboard.com/student/...mp.html?ushist
2006 Advanced Placement (AP) U.S. History Exam Free-Response Questions
3. Explain why and how the role of the federal government changed as a result of the Civil War
with respect to TWO of the following during the period 1861-1877:
- Race relations
- Economic development
- Westward expansion

5. While the United States appeared to be dominated by consensus and conformity in the 1950's,
some Americans reacted against the status quo.
Analyze the critique of United States society made by TWO of the following:
- Youth
- Civil Rights Activists
- Intellectuals










bhchao -



Quote:

As gato mentioned, most college students in the US are liberal arts majors. Well, that’s even
bigger problem compared to China’s. America will lose its edge.

There is some truth to that. America is already losing its edge in biotechnology and
nanotechnology, two promising technological areas, to Singapore and South Korea, and perhaps also
China and Japan. Singapore has an extensive stem cell research program which scientists from
around the world are flocking to. http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...218061,00.html

The money to fund a certain area exists in the US and eclipses what Asian countries have to offer,
but Asian governments have the willpower and determination to develop those technologies to full
potential.

If I was a stem cell scientist, I would also move to Singapore if my research ambitions are
thwarted by politicians at home.










studentyoung -



Quote:

Economics is a mix, because it takes a scientific approach and requires a lot of mathematics, but
the works of economists can’t be judged by a matter of right or wrong. Isn’t it one reason why
economists don’t have sound reputations as natural scientists?

Check the word below, please. Ala, can anyone offer the original text, please?
上帝把最简单的问题留给物理学家，把最难的问题留给经济学家，而人，是�
��题的根源。

Therefore, I don’t understand why economists don’t have sound reputations as natural
scientists?

Thanks!










chenpv -



Quote:

Problems I see here are, first, over-confident engineers could mess up; second, Wen education
requires big reforms.

I wholeheartedly agree that some major reforms are badly needed in the current Chinese education
system. Well, apart from this, I can also see an urging want of encouraging students of both Wen
and Li to be more tolerant with knowledges of the opposite area, and to be more self-motivated to
acquire as much information as his/her ability could reach.

I didn't intend to generalize the overall college students in China this way, but my personal
experiences did suggest a large swath of students unfortunately falling under the category, who
cherish nothing else but what he/she decides for a career. I heard with my own ears that students
studying biology emotionlessly alleged research methods in psychology were 'nothing but heretical
ideas', and those who study business regard basic science research 'spending too much money and
basically useless', even though they all agreed and seemingly aspired to know more about knowledge.

This fact is more disturbing than funny to me, provided that they don't seem to find the right way
achieving their aspirations in current situations but consensually justify their attitudes and
ways of studying by blaming on the education system... Well










Outofin -



Quote:


Originally Posted by studentyoung

Check the word below, please. Ala, can anyone offer the original text, please?
上帝把最简单的问题留给物理学家，把最难的问题留给经济学家，而人，是�
��题的根源。

Therefore, I don’t understand why economists don’t have sound reputations as natural
scientists?


Yes, the research topics economists try to tackle are more difficult than natural science, in some
sense. But unlike mathematicians, I think the progress economists made is very pathetic. Maybe
just me, I don’t trust them.

Studentyoung, what does your “ala” mean? Is it a shanghai hua? Or you’re a Muslim? I
didn’t know you’re a Muslim.



Quote:


Originally Posted by gato

Having done both liberal arts and engineering, I know both sides pretty well. They each have their
pluses and minuses. I wouldn't say the U.S. will lose its edge because most Americans are not
trained to be engineers or scientists. The need for engineers and scientists is very small in the
overall market. Take a Google, for example. A well-managed company employing just ten, twenty
thousand engineers is capable of providing the web infrastructure for the entire globe, if it is
allowed to. Only a very small minority is needed to provide the technical services needed by the
broader public.


What I said was really a very common idea. The author of The World Is Flat made the same argument
in his book. We haven’t found anything other than technology innovation to push economy forward.
I don’t doubt that Goolge hires more non-technical staff than its R&D division. But, the service
sector comes out of the R&D, doesn’t it? Needless to say, new business mode is important too,
but not as powerful as technology innovation.

Maybe a few geniuses are enough. But to get one genius, we need to train a million students.










studentyoung -



Quote:

Yes, the research topics economists try to tackle are more difficult than natural science, in some
sense. But unlike mathematicians, I think the progress economists made is very pathetic. Maybe
just me, I don’t trust them.

I think that it is because some economists in China sell their soul to who pay them huge amount of
money that make people don’t trust them and even look down on them. Not just you, Outofin,
sometimes Chinese economists don’t trust each other.

Well, let’s go back to the business. In normal condition, people understand natural science
helps us to discover the natural world and social science helps us to discover ourselves and our
society. (Hehe. Of course, some people, especially some animal experts and insect experts, try to
help people understand more on our society by showing us the animal or insect world.) Both natural
and social science can help us to understand more on nature, society, and others, which are
important for us to create a better future. I don’t know where the battle lies in between
natural science and social science.



Quote:

Studentyoung, what does your “ala” mean? Is it a shanghai hua? Or you’re a Muslim? I
didn’t know you’re a Muslim.

I am sorry for the confusion. It is a typo. It should be “Alas. 唉 / 天啊！”.

Thanks!












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Speak Chinese - Teaching Job Ads -

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roddy -

Ads for teaching jobs should go in the classifieds (but make sure you post full information.
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Learn Mandarin online - Antiwave: question on lastest program -

> Learning Chinese > Speaking and Listening
Antiwave: question on lastest program
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yonitabonita -

Hey folks,

A question for those that have listened to : 你能不能反对同性恋.

What is "xi(4)过了“?

The presenter mentions it on a number of occasions:

- After the anecdote about the gay guy at the function telling everyone that all human beings are
gay, even if they're in denial

- after his tantrum over feminists' pointing out the discriminatory nature of the term 'ladies',
and the patriarchal nature of the term 'history'.

I can't for the life of my work out which "xi" it is. Can any other listeners enlighten me?

thanks in advance,

Yonita



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semantic nuance -

From its context, I guess it means 過了頭(it's way out of line).


edit: is it likely that 戲 means 'to play, to act'? So 戲過了 means 戲過了頭,
演過了頭, 說過了頭, something that is too much over what it is? Just a guess.










roddy -

That's as much as I can figure out. There's a reference to 戏过 in the comments. No something
I've heard before.










Koneko -

Could it be 洗过了?

Maybe it was used to explain something had been "bowdlerised" in the show.

K.










gato -

I think “戏过了” is some new slang.

http://ent.tom.com//1306/1362/20051124-162561.html
“艺妓”纽约试映令人失望 章子怡被批“戏过了”
"Geisha" New York Premier Disappoints, Zhang Ziyi Criticized as "Xi4 Guo4 Le4"












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Learn Mandarin online - 佛陀 -

> Learning Chinese > Reading and Writing
佛陀
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kaox0018 -

i'm using my wenlin dictionary program and it's telling me 佛陀 means both Buddha and slang for
"pickpoket." how did such a differing connotation get attached to this word?



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Sunny_xu -

well, "佛陀"　means buddha so does "菩萨".

菩萨 can mean pickpocket in some place of china (maybe in Beijing, and it's street talk).
cuz buddha is god who can't be seen and who's messing with your life. and there's nothing you can
do about it. And, pickpockets are ppl always sitting there doing nothing but waiting for "their"
profit.
PS: no offence to Buddhists.










Quest -

I would refrain from using slangs in China as many of them are local in scope.












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Learn Chinese online - Short-Term Study Options in Spring '07 -

> Studying, Working and Living in China > Universities and Schools > Studying
Chinese in Beijing
Short-Term Study Options in Spring '07
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thinlay -

Hey all....i'm shortening this post in hopes someone can offer me some advice

I am looking for a one-month program in March '07. My primary goals are to (i) attain as much
fluency as possible in a semester of study and (ii) immerse myself as authentically as possible.
In April, i'll be spending two-three months in Guizhou province to continue studying and teaching
English.

Does anyone have experience studying short-term for 4 weeks (or comparable time) at BNU? I think
this would suit me best, given the research i've done and all the posts on this forum. BCLU offers
this program, but I've missed the application deadline (Dec 29) and I'd rather be a little more
independent and a slightly "older" student crowd. (Well, actually, I'm only 29)

Any other experiences and possibilities would be most welcome too.

Thanks!



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HSK Exam - Introductions -

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Introductions
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Page 1 of 2 1 2 >






Kiwijes -

Hi, my chinese is terrible and I am really trying to cram in the lessons before I get there.

So here's an easy one...
Can you please tell me how to say " I am from...." - preferably in Pinyin.

I want to at least have memorised a few sentences to describe who I am and where I come from!!

Any other great introduction phrases are always appreciated too.

Thanks again!



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skylee -

Consider -

1) I am XX -> Wo3 jiao4 XX [ 我叫 XX ]

2) I am from YYY -> Wo3 shi cong2 YYY lai2 de [ 我是從 YYY 來的 ]
OR -> Wo3 lai2 zi4 YYY [ 我來自 YYY ]

The romanisation is based on hanyu pinyin (meaning if you pronounce it as if it were English you
might not be understood.)










kdavid -

Two very important lines for beginners:

Ni3 hui2 shuo1 ying1yu3 / ying1wen2 ma? (Can you speak English?)

Wo3 ting1 bu2 dong3! (I don't understand!)

And, if you're coming here to study:

Qing3, shuo1 man4 dianr3. (Please speak slowly.)










babygodzilla -

just curious, are you taking lessons, and when are you coming to China?



good luck!










Ardison -

wǒ cónɡ （place) lái = I am from (place)
我 从 （place) 来

hěn ɡāo xìnɡ rèn shí nǐ = I am glad to meet you
很 高 兴 认 识 你

xīn xī lán = New Zealand
新 西 兰










imron -



Quote:

Ni3 hui2 shuo1 ying1yu3 / ying1wen2 ma?

This should be hui4.










Koneko -

Something extra...

Local people might not go by your name, so it's not uncommon to hear people calling you:-

1. Laowai
2. Dabizi
3. Yangren
4. Yangguizi

Just a few I can think of...

K.










kdavid -



Quote:

Quote:
Ni3 hui2 shuo1 ying1yu3 / ying1wen2 ma?

This should be hui4.

Right! My mistake.

Also, Kiwi, I read yesterday they that speak the Wu dialect in Jiangsu, and while they "should"
know Mandarin, you still might want to keep that in mind.










HashiriKata -



Quote:

Right! My mistake.

Not done yet!
Check also your other sentence: Wo3 ting1 bu2 dong3! (I don't understand!)










kdavid -



Quote:

Quote:
Right! My mistake.
Not done yet!
Check also your other sentence: Wo3 ting1 bu2 dong3! (I don't understand!)

Apparently my 2's and 4's were off the other day. Sorry this has deterred the entire thread!












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Chinese Class - Steve Kaufmann - How good is he? -

> Learning Chinese > Speaking and Listening
Steve Kaufmann - How good is he?
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wannabeafreak -

As I have no mandarin skills, I'm wondering if someone can comment on Steve Kaufmann's Mandarin
speaking ability:

1) Accent
2) Fluency
3) Level

http://www.thelinguist.com/media/av/...006/11/tec.mp3
http://www.thelinguist.com/media/av/.../10/chiphi.mp3

Does he sound like an obvious 鬼佬? I really don't know as I have no exposure to this language.

To my ears he sounds 100% Chinese, no difference to a native.



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anonymoose -

To me, as a non-native speaker of chinese, I think his mandarin is not bad, but he doesn't sound
like a native. I'll leave others to comment on his accent and level, but I'd say his fluency is
not very good. He takes long pauses while he's trying to think of what to say next.










bomaci -

Having spoken to Mr Kaufmann myself I would say that his accent is good but he makes some tone
mistakes. I have also let my native speaking wife listen to him and she says that while his accent
is very obviously foreign she has no trouble understanding him.
I think his level is quite high, especially his listening comprehension.










Yuchi -

He sounds a bit off, I don't know what it is, he overemphasizes the h in his "shi" 是, that's the
one thing that's a bit obvious, but he pumps out the words like a native speaker.










WoAiJolinTsai -

It sounds like he has an Eastern Europen accent or something. Definitely not native, but
definitely still very good.










wannabeafreak -



Quote:

I'd say his fluency is not very good. He takes long pauses while he's trying to think of what to
say next.

I don't think that's fair.

I recorded myself speaking English and I took long pauses while trying to think of what to say
next too.

I would be quite cut if someone told me my English fluency was not very good.










Jive Turkey -

I think he is an excellent user of Chinese, but there are little things-things that to my ear
aren't really even annoying-that give him away as a non-native. He has lots of native-like traits
in his speech, but they don't all fit together in a native-like balance. He also misses a few
tones. If you were to delete the English words he throws in and his missed tones, he would still
sound non-native to the native or near-native ear because even though there would be no "errors"
in his speech, he would still not sound consistently like any one "native" accent; like a lot of
high-proficiency learners, he seems to have some accent mixing going on there. I think most CSL
students would be quite happy to speak as well as he does, though.










Strawberries513 -

yes I dont agree with annonymoose (sp?) either. I am a native English speaker and I pause all the
time in English.

But I do think his mandarin is good, but not native sounding.










gato -

The person Kaufman is interviewing sounds native, with a Taiwan accent (since he lived in Taiwan).
http://thelinguist.blogs.com/how_to_...uist_me_3.html
The Linguist meets his match Chinese










SteveK -

I noticed this thread as a referrer to my blog so I thought I would comment here.
In my view a useful and realistic goal of language learning is fluency, not perfection. One of the
most important principles that will get you to fluency is the willingness to deal with uncertainty
and mistakes in the new language; conversations you do not understand, thoughts you cannot
express, words you mispronounce, wrong tones, wrong gender, whatever. Traditional language
teaching, with its emphasis on correct production of the language, has done great harm to language
learning. Learn to like the language, and learn to like yourself speaking the language. Emphasize
input in your learning activities, and enjoy output activities as a game, and not a performance to
be judged.

It is unrealistic for most people to aspire to sound like a native speaker. It is, however,
possible to continue to improve. I learned Mandarin in 1968 in Hong Kong. I did not speak it much
for 30 years thereafter. I occasionally listened and read. Starting five years ago I have had
occasion to visit China three times. I stepped up my listening to 相声CDs by 侯宝林,
三国演义 told by 袁阔成 etc. in preparation for my trips. I listen again if I am invited to
join a political panel discussion on local (Vancouver) Mandarin televistion. My Chinese today is
better than when I studied it 35 years ago, although I have lost the skill of writing the
characters by hand.

Recently most of my listening and reading activity is directed towards Russian and Korean. I find
I am able to learn langauges faster today at 61 than when I was young. The reason is that I ignore
all explanations of the details of the language, all the drills, quizzes, irrelevant examples and
other teacher centred "activities". I just focus on content, listening and reading over and over
again. I then review and repeat the new words and phrases. I am able to achieve an ability to
speak comfortably much more quickly than was the case when I tried to remember rules and words
endings.

Steve Kaufmann
www.thelinguist.blogs.com












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Chinese language - ZDT: Forum posts -

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bogleg -

I just wanted to let everyone that when posting to this forum, please preface their post titles
with ZDT: (ie. "ZDT: Why is this program so buggy?") It makes things clearer when they appear on
the home page / new post searches, etc. And Roddy appreciates it. =)

Thanks!

Chris



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